i was working as a self employed painter last summer and did very well. made around £700 a week most of the time.

but for some reason i thought i'd try been a tiler. i didn the BAL course and i just feel like i cock everything up.

i love painting and dec and the customers always chuffed with my work. but should i go back now theres a credit crunch? is it much harder surviving as a painter?

ive got all the equipment ready to go. just think i mgith benefit from doing a wallpapering course and covnign sometime

You will always find that good tradesmen of all trades are in demand. Note the word GOOD tradesmen, not people who call themselves tradesmen and not those who think they are good. You can tell a good tradesmen by his order book be it in good times or during a down turn in the economy, be it a credit crunch, recession or just a down turn in the housing market.

Good point well made Village - the decorator I sub stuff out to is as busy as ever !!
Joe - if there is a downturn in work (personally I have not noticed) I am sure that tilers would fare worse than decorators. Whilst I accept the arguement that in bad times some customers might be tempted do the decorating themselves its FAR more likely that the higher cost tiling projects just get put on the backburner entirely !

Joe; i have just noticed that you are a painter not a decorator and that you have got the tools but don’t know how to use them. That really says it all.

This forum is unlike any other forum. You won’t get told that you have completed a fantastic project when its crap you will be told its crap. There are no frills and pretty things put on our replies. You are told what you need to hear not what you would like to be told.

Remember some clients are two faced; they are like your family and friends, not to upset you they will tell what a good job you have made, but when you back is turn they will tell the world and his wife what a load of brown stuff your work is.

Take complements with a pinch of salt and only trust your order book and the type of clients you have when it comes to knowing how good you are.

Like Scotty I am thinking what’s this down turn every one is talking about. All my work comes from word of mouth and my web site.

You can’t build up a good reputation if you flit from one trade to another at the drop of a paint brush ( jack of all trades but a master of non ).

Village, chillax dude and get off your mighty high horse, some sound advice but you seem a little harassed; we all have to start somewhere and make a few mistakes along the way, Joe's just asking for a bit of friendly advice, nobody wants to be treated like that - apart from Max Mosely obviously who actually pays for it!

thanks for the replies. i have great references from my decorating work so im certainly not a jack of all trades.

You may well have good references but they are not worth the paper they written on if you don’t have a full or healthy order book. A healthy order book is the only references that really maters, is it not? If you had a healthy order book and enjoy painting that much I don’t think you would consider a career change or have the need for further training. And defiantly no need to ask complete strangers what you should do.

In my book a guy who flits from one trade to another is a jack of all trades and master of none

hmmm. i was simply torn between the two trades and knew i wanted to specialize in one

Personally i don't think you have done any harm learning another trade such as tiling and why not go back to decorating if thats what you want to do. The very best tradesman i know is a general builder, who can tile, plaster, decorate, do carpentry. Pretty much everything.

I think you make a fair point about the downturn. I've not felt it myself yet but certainly the chaps that were working on new builds have seen a real downturn in work. The brickies and decortors i know that work on the larger sites are definitely feeling the strain. What sort of decorating were you doing before? Site work or small domestic. If it is the latter i think you will be ok going back to decorating.

Good luck with what ever you deide to do.

Village, you offer a lot of good advice on this forum and are probably one of the most respected posters but you do need to chill sometimes. The whole point of a forum is for people to come on and ask questions.

Cheers

Si

Speaking myself as a Jack of a few trades (is that howls of derision I hear from some quarters ?) I cannot see a problem in adding new skills to your range but it does beg the question whether or not you could operate as both ? For example a tiler may see some logic in expanding into basic plumbing so he/she can fit and tile the same bathroom or a decorator may also consider plastering as a second trade as offering private customers the choice of a reskim and emulsion over a repaper might be a valuable unique selling point over the competition.
I guess what I am saying is that expanding your skill set is perfectly acceptable so long as there is a strategic reason to do it and if you are self employed it may make sense to run the trades in tandem if one trade was not keeping you fully busy. But I would agree with Village on the point that jumping ship entirely and then jumping back again is surely a recipe for disaster - all those loyal decorating customers who heard that you had jacked it in and become a tiler have now found another decorator !! - no good if you now want to jump back.

i know we have been on this topic a million times, but i am a little wary of this reliance on courses. it seems like doing a course is the key to success. for me, a course can add to existing skills, not actually form the basis of a skill. most building work is a question of measuring and cutting, putting stuff together and making it look good, be it paper, paint, tiles or plaster, your attitude and instinct are the most important. i agree with scotty, expand your skills, but do so in a logical direction. do customers ever ask you if you can do a oarticular job that you are not confident in? How about heading in that direction?

check out my post on the building forum... i am not a happy bunny today!

thanks for the advice again. i shall carry on tiling for now and see how things go. i am fantastic at laying floors but my wall skills are a bit poo at times (still way better than most).
im not too confident with plumbing stuff even thought i know what im doing. that makes no sense i know

I have to say its getting a bit quiet for me.
I counted up the ads in the local parish magazine and there are 12 painters (i use the word loosely) advertising, (not including the ones not in there) that means theres about 8-10 too many for the village i live in, and there was just 2 of us when i started. Funny thing is i see there vans about, but never see them in the local pro paintstore that sell the trade paints, problem solving paints and pro gear, and cant help wondering if thats a hint at the quality of their work. I quoted a job last summer to do a bedroom for £240, " oh know she said i`ve already been quoted £150, but i want you to do it", so i did it for £200, it was three days work, so how can i compete with guys charging £50 a day?
I have to laugh when i see the rates flying around of £150 pd for a painter, i can only just get £80pd, i got a good rep, repeat customers and my attitude is your only as good as your last job.
I am actually thinking of getting out as all the site boys that are getting made redundant are going to come into the private/domestic sector and prices are gonna hit rock bottom, while costs shoot up

im doing ok at the moment, just took some on part time, im having to work evening and weekends just try and clear up some of the smaller jobs, im getting around £100 p/d at the moment.
as for people chargeing £50 p/d i always say you get what you pay for, ive got a solid regular customers, but ive got to diargee with village idoit, theres been times where ive only been two weeks in advance, but works keep coming in but still only keeping me a couple of weeks in advance.

joe you can only try, never put all your eggs in one basket, as for having couple of trades under your belt, what possible harm can it do? il put money on the fact that village idoit doesnt just do one trade, the cabnets he makes look spot on, and i bet he'll varnish/paint them if asked! there for hes not just a joiner. the best trades man i know is a joiner thats hes made trade, but ive only ever come across one plaster thats on the same level as him, he fits bathrooms/kitchens, tiling and roofing, so does that mean hes a jack of all trades master of none? knackers does it. village idoits living in a different world if he thinks thats the case, yeah you do get cowboys but does that mean every one is?

as for painting and decorating, why dont you buy some lining paper and pratice on your house? leave the patterned paper alone till you have done a decorating course.

dont be put off by some of the comments on here. the credit crunch is made worse by the the news making people panic, but what i and i few other decorators i know, is that now people arent moving/buying new houses, they are looking at theres and just get it decoratored top to bottom, so it looks nice and so why the house prices go back up it already done up.

if you enjoy decorating then do that, and just pick up tiling jobs as they come, and over time you will get better at them both.

This may sound pompous but I am not a joiner but a cabinet maker of the old school and part of my trade is being able to french polish, lacquer by hand or spray. That doesn’t mean I am a commercial polisher (french polisher) its just part of my trade. I don’t and will never polish (french polish) any one else work i.e. if a joiner asked be to polish a counter he made then the answerer is sorry but no I would advise him to employ a commercial freench polisher.

All my work is designed by me, that don’t make me a commercial designer its just part of my trade. But I must admit I offer a design only service to architects and interior designers which make me a few extra pennies.

You do get guys with a good knowledge of 2 or more trades under there belt and do a good job. But Joe stated in the very begin that he is a good painter and tried tilling but for some apparent reason didn’t make the grade. He wants to know if he should flit back to being a painter. How can he or any one else build up a good client base and reputation when you change trades in mid stream. We all know you after work at building up a good client base and accept the lean times as well as the good, we don’t jump ship.

He should have stuck to the decorating and built up the tilling and gain experience in both and not become a jack of all trades and master of none by jumping from one trade to another at the drop of a hat.

but you get my point about learning more than one trade, the last paragraph you made is pretty much what most people were saying, you seemed to have come on here in a bad mood and took it out on joe so to speak, not like your last paragraph, which to me is the right advice to give

ive stuck at the tiling game and i always feel like ive made the wrong choice. but now im having serious concerns as to wether i can carry on tiling as my leg is buggered. im 25 and broke my leg badly in january and cant handle the kneeling down anymore. i often spend the whole day on my knee's where as with painting its maybe 10 - 20% (i tile floors 90% of the time as nobody seems to want walls doing).
atleast i have a great reason to go back into painting and maybe just tile the odd splashback etc.
i got a email last week from my first ever customer i painter for and he wants me back. i said instead of quoting just give me 100 a day plus materials!
ive never had a customer want me back for tiling or recommend me, im not cut out to do it. but i must admit, im the dogs at painting!
so is there much work out there at the moment? the only great thing about tiling is that theres very little competition! where as theres atleast 3 painters in my local paper and mags etc

Excellent thank you not complaining at all